In the end, something common must emerge from the diversity
Diversity is in the DNA of an orchestra. Good and successful orchestras must be able to embrace diversity. Do you agree?
Nikolaus Pont (NP): Absolutely! We are currently experiencing many developments in the world of music, which are constantly giving rise to new expectations that we as an orchestra must and want to meet. When I think of the repertoire alone, there is an incredible variety. There are now 250 to 300 years that a modern orchestra has to master these days. One week, our musicians have to get to grips with a baroque musical language. The next, it’s a score that was only finished four days ago.
Anne Schoenholtz (AS): I believe that it is fundamentally very important for orchestras today to develop and demonstrate personal diversity. It is only through outward diversity that orchestras can distinguish themselves from one another instead of sinking into arbitrariness.
Orchestra is a team game, but it can only work if very different, diverse instruments and personalities work together. How do you experience this?
NP: That is precisely the core of the fascination that surrounds an orchestra. The musicians come with their instrument, their personal preferences and passions, their working and playing styles and meet around 100 other musicians who feel the same way. Sometimes the differences between these individuals are greater, sometimes smaller. But no matter how big and how diverse the differences are: In the end, something common must always emerge.
How many stars can an orchestra take?
AS: I don’t think we are so different from the teams of “normal” companies in terms of composition. I recently had a discussion with a friend on this topic. She said that there is a large midfield of team members at her company who are motivated and committed to varying degrees depending on the project. A third of the people there only do what is necessary. And around 10 percent are stars, if you like. These are people who invest an incredible amount, who drive and inspire others, who develop visions. I was able to understand this line-up very well. Of course we need stars in the orchestra because they always manage to motivate their colleagues to give their best. For our orchestra, I’ve noticed that most people are happy that we have such stars in our orchestra. We are a performance orchestra.
NP: The comparison is of course not new and only works to a limited extent, but the question immediately made me think of a soccer team. You also need the playmakers and the goal scorers, who are usually regarded as the stars of the team. However, these goal scorers, who are constantly on the move forward, can only shine if the players in defensive midfield or in defense “function” perfectly, closing spaces and creating security – and therefore freedom! – so that they can pass and dribble with virtuosity up front.
Ideally, the goal scorers also help in defense these days. It’s not for nothing that more and more coaches are saying that defense begins in the forward line.</strong
NP: That’s right. But what the offensive and defensive players all have in common is that they want to win. But for this to succeed, their sporting and artistic ambition must and may develop in different directions – forwards and backwards.
How important are stars for the cash register to be right at the end of the day?
NP: We are still a company that is very much based on an understanding of stars. That doesn’t just apply to us, but also to other orchestras. Stars, especially in the solo area, provide a certain amount of income and ticket sales and a certain amount of stability and predictability. Audiences demand the big stars, the big names. Beethoven and Tchaikovsky are popular. But Ann-Sophie Mutter and Lang Lang are even more popular. I am not uncritical of this focus, because in the end it also works against the diversity and development opportunities of our industry. Big names often lead to more expensive tickets that only a wealthy audience can afford.
How important is the trainer, the conductor, in taming the diversity in the orchestra?
AS: He is enormously important for us as artists. And at the moment, we have a coach in Sir Simon Rattle who is loved by everyone and ensures harmony. Diversity only works if we find a level where we are all going in the same direction. If that doesn’t happen, the result is chaos.
NP: Diversity always involves a kind of collective consciousness, a sense of responsibility. We need the aforementioned stars, but not egos. Someone who is only interested in their own personal headlines and interests, who doesn’t care about the performance of the orchestra as a whole as long as they perform well, is no longer in demand today.
How does Sir Simon Rattle create the harmony I mentioned?
AS: I find Sir Simon Rattle very ageless when working with him. He always meets young and older colleagues as equals. He has his finger on the pulse of the times. He is incredibly warm, empathetic and approachable. He is open and his human and musical spectrum …
… through his diversity? …
… creates so many possibilities for us.
Are there groups of instruments that attract certain personalities? Is the diversity of instruments also reflected in your human diversity?
AS: That’s always the question: what came first? The chicken or the egg? Does the human influence the instrument? Or does the instrument change the person? I can certainly see the psychological abnormalities you mentioned. With us violinists alone. We have two violin groups, a first and a second. A substitute who played in both groups once said to me that she felt like she was in a completely different orchestra. In the first violin group, which I am also in, we are very opinionated. And we don’t keep our opinions to ourselves. We sometimes get into trouble with the conductor because of this. The second group, on the other hand, is much calmer and more focused. I’m also fascinated by the extremely different characters of the solo wind players, for example.
NP: I also see the relationship between personality and instrument. Sometimes I even ask myself who influences whom. Perhaps musicians are sometimes similar to pet owners, who become more and more like their pets over the years. Many musicians say that an instrument has a kind of life of its own to a certain extent.
Is personality a characteristic that is taken into account during the audition?
AS: We are perhaps the only profession in which there is no real job interview. We only meet our future colleagues visually and through sounds. There is a letter of motivation, but they are usually very similar. Nevertheless, I believe that you learn a lot about a person from the interaction and interaction. Just as I believe that people who hear us as an orchestra can sense what social values we stand for. Whether we are more conservative, pluralistic, serious or cheerful. I think it’s so important that we continue to develop our vision of the orchestra and become clear about how we as an orchestra affect people and which people we want to appeal to. This also includes our connection to Werksviertel …
… You regularly record your podcast here, are present at numerous events in the district and one day the BRSO’s new headquarters will be located here …</strong
AS: The Werksviertel with its diversity really obliges us to engage even more intensively with something that is already on our future agenda. I think we as an orchestra have to keep asking ourselves the simple questions. What actually is a concert hall? In the past, a concert hall was something completely different from what it has to be today. What is a symphony orchestra? If we want to reach a young audience, young families, then these people and their issues, whether it’s climate change or war fears, must be reflected in our concerts. Through special programming or through the moderation. Of course, we could also say that we are only there to preserve the old repertoire and present it in the best possible quality. That would perhaps be relatively comfortable, but neither particularly innovative nor close to the spirit of the times.
Keyword young audience: does classical music have a problem with young talent?</strong
NP: I have been confronted with questions about whether our audience is dying out for 25 years. Despite all the concerns about the next generation, we shouldn’t lose sight of the fact that for 25 years an audience has obviously grown back that sees something special in us. As an orchestra, we also offer social added value, which in my opinion is often overlooked: we offer people the opportunity to concentrate on something for two hours and get involved. That is possible with us. We are not a 3-minute YouTube format.
Would having your own home help you to develop the vision you mentioned and a distinctive profile?
NP: Not only help, it is ultimately the basic prerequisite for this. How closely the identity of the Berlin Philharmonic is linked to the Philharmonie, whose shape is even reflected in the logo. The Vienna Philharmonic is also automatically associated with its golden concert hall due to the great success of the New Year’s Concert, which is also very identity-defining. Or the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam, this palatial classical building with the rising stage and the audience, some of whom sit above the stage. And the conductor comes down a staircase from above. These are all images that are associated with the respective orchestras. And of course we don’t have these images. What is associated with us are the cable columns in the backstage area of the Herkulessaal, which I spot in so many photos.
AS: The hall we play in is also our instrument. The Vienna Philharmonic sounds so velvety-soft because it has been playing in this velvety-soft space for centuries. We can’t develop this kind of tonal DNA at the moment. How do you want to be recognized if you have a new haircut, a different hair color and a different style of clothing every day? We need an acoustic and also a visual recognition feature.
In Werksviertel?
AS: I still believe that this can be an absolute flagship project. Especially if we don’t stop building on seeing ourselves as artists in a creative quarter and we develop a proper concept for it. Not just for us, but in exchange with others here on site. Theme weeks at Werksviertel: the jazz club does something, the flower store does something, the gallery owners do something and we play the music. In order to be creative and reach out to new target groups, we don’t have to bend ourselves too much and appear in a bikini, for example. No, we are in our core business, but this is so deeply embedded in the diversity of the neighborhood that new social approaches arise quite automatically.
NP: Core business is a great keyword. In addition to all the conceivable formats and new venues with which we are already making our presence felt and, as Anne says, want to do even more in the future, it is and remains a very important part of our work to perform with a large line-up of up to 115 musicians. Because that is also something very special and distinctive. Despite all the changes, we shouldn’t compromise this – also in order not to compromise the value of new formats and platforms.
AS: Of course, we don’t need new formats just for the sake of it. But I do find it exciting to see what will be possible in the future thanks to digitalization, for example. At a symposium, we were presented with a tool that allows people in the audience to use a QR code to get the viola part on their own cell phone, for example. And the neighbor might say to himself, if you have the viola, I’ll get the violin. You could do something like that as a lunch concert, while in the evening it gets more classical again.
What would you like to align a vision for the BRSO with?
AS: This is exactly what we have to deal with. Orchestras today no longer function as they did 150 years ago. Everything around it has changed. We can’t pretend that we live in a tunnel. We should be more than just a beautiful island from a bygone era that still exists today. For example, I would like to see more People Of Color in the orchestra. Or more female conductors. After all, we are a mirror of society.
NP: I agree with you. In these times of upheaval, we are also measured by how we have opened doors for others and what legacy we will one day leave behind. To some extent, this is also a natural process. In recent times, we have said goodbye to many long-standing and prominent orchestra members who have been replaced by musicians 30 to 40 years younger. They bring a completely different mindeframe to the orchestra. Our internationality has increased enormously in recent years.
How has the job description of an orchestral musician changed in recent years?
AS: It has become more diverse. Just because of the dozens of committees in our orchestra that all have to be filled. There is an artistic advisory board, a board of directors, a climate group, an education committee, a podcast team … This organizational diversity not only takes time, but also requires a willingness to get involved. Incidentally, this diversity also gives rise to a completely new self-image. As a musician, I would never have thought that I would one day host a podcast. But it helps us to reach people and to communicate in a different way what we actually do and are as an orchestra.
NP: I find this development remarkable. I noticed it again recently at one of our Watch This Space concerts here at Werksviertel. Two musicians provided an incredibly sympathetic, personal and at the same time highly professional moderation and presentation of the pieces in between. And they did this even though they had to be very focused while playing, because the pieces demanded a lot from them technically.
What is the current situation regarding the compatibility of family and career in the orchestra? Can female musicians also be mothers?
AS: We have now become very family-friendly.
NP: We want to offer as family-friendly a working environment as possible. This also includes dealing with the specific challenges that part-time availability of orchestra members brings for an ensemble, for example. In some places, this requires rethinking, collective awareness, collegiality and sensitivity, but I see a lot of all of this at the BRSO.
Interview: Nina Bovensiepen & Daniel Wiechmann
